It has a small flex area in the lower tip with a stronger butt sloping up toward the end with a good butt swell; fast rod. Common sense tells me to leave the middle of the taper . They would be; The Straight line taper is the most basic and then the six major deviations of the SLT. I would describe the rod action as very powerful, as you would expect from most Dickersons. Dickerson 8615 - 8.5ft 2pc 7wt Posted by Gary Lohkamp,15 Jan 1997. A taper is a fishing rod term that defines the rod length, optimal line weight, and rod flex action. Consider one or the other of these two if your rod maker intends to fit the rod with step down ferrules, since there is a .010" step down across the ferrule stations. 8 wt 0.0830 40 0.180 146694 Do any rod makers sells rods they do not like? All of which indicates to me that there is not one 'correct' straight line taper. (John Channer), Well, the #13 Payne ferrules that I've mic'd had a female ferrule internal diameter of .203" and the step-down internal diameter of .1875". I measured the rod after seeing David Ray's posting of an 861711 in his taper library that is accessed from Hexrod. Casting range allows for some delicacy up close and personal, to the times that you want to reach out and touch someone a bit further away. (Robin Haywood). All he needed to do was speed up the butts, preferably with a concave taper form, and he would really have been cooking with gas! 0.369 The Dickerson 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is 7 1/2 long in a 2pc. I have been working with Bob Norwood's taper program, using it to derive a basic set of reference tapers. If you are designing a rod based on a linear taper and you want to make it a 3 or 4 piece instead of a 2, how would this be taken into account? 10 0.101 154505 (four piece) carbon fiber spey blank. 55 0.2275 As long as a maker includes the correct ferrule drop, Dickerson tapers are no more difficult to make than most others. In fact, I use the 7613 that I made a lot of the time, even while Hex fishing last week on the Manistee! These are Bob's dimensions. . The other point is that in the case of, for want of a better word, 'non-extreme' rods, I believe that what happens in the top 20" is the primary determinant of the line weight. I'm not sure why you don't like Garrison, nor his tapers, but you can have your own opinions as can everyone else. You don't find a need for a 7'6" 5wt on your streams. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive), I'm grateful to you for that point because a recent post referred to straight taper Garrisons and I wonder if he meant straight stress "curves". Your statement that "if you want to make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight tapers will deliver. Summers Bamboo Fly Rods Company Vom Hofe Reels Young Winston Bob Summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods since 1956. .248@15 I think of it as an 8013G. 0.138 In practice most people these days do not take well to these technically correct ideas, preferring a slope to the straight line, giving higher strain levels near the tip, i.e. I made the Dickerson 7613 from the numbers in Jack Howells book. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide. But nobody has a right to ask me to share it. I think I can reply for Dennis, as I was one of the guys who measured those rods. to use it on trout other than the Yough, Savage River reservoir and some lakes. All sections are full length and straight. The guy turns out to be a top casting instructor. That said, even this quite powerful taper isn't sufficient to handle large deer hair bass bugs or heavily weighted 2/0 streamers. Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. If you want a rod that feels like a SLT then you must compensate for the ferrules and varnish and guides by adding the proper amount of bamboo at the correct points on the taper. (Robin Haywood), I find this a very interesting. The rod action will not resemble a straight line taper any longer. I've cast the original and it is one strong casting rod and deserving of the Guide Special nomenclature. (David Atchison), Wondered if anyone had the taper for the Dickerson 8012 laying around. We are typically roll casting about five yards of line at very small fish, so all things can be subjugate to that. If you add bamboo the the tip of the rod, you have changed its mass (MOI/MOE) relative to what it was. Spring Creek Four, Bob Summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods since 1956. 10 0.097 Inquiring solvent-afflicted minds want to know. I think you are being a tad myopic, if you can't see that .016, .014, and .015 AVERAGE OUT to equal .014". Acclaimed as one of the finest rod tapers ever conceived. Part of the midwestcadre of noted builders, he built rods from the 1930's onward and was especially known for his fast two-piece rods. Unknown, so I would hesitate to speculate. There should be 20 measurements not 19. 0.088 I can add that there is not one single straight line taper for each line weight. a 3 1/2 wt - were that possible. (Inches) (Inches) Stress Both tapers conform to the shape broadly called parabolic and thus will have the shortcomings that all rods of this misconceived taper share. 0.278 For example, the 8013 taper I use is .202 at the ferrule end of the tip, and .212 at the ferrule end of the butt. (Jerry Foster), I agree. In the local streams we suffer the length to enable some sort of roll cast, but use #4 or #3 lines. (Harry Boyd), In Dickerson-speak, does a 7613 have a 14 on the butt to 13 on the tip or a 13 on the butt to 12 on the tip stepdown? by oldfishbrain 06/19/16 10:39, Post I would be very interested in hearing what you have to say about the differences between the two tapers. the all-around trout rod out here in the Western US. It's a 7 wt too but being a little shorter is easier on the arm and shoulder due to the shorter lever arm length. Since the time he was with the Deschutes Rod Co. in Seattle he has built rods with Dickerson tapers. But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you! I finally made one for my wife and cut one into 4 pieces for me. You simply have to then adjust the rate of change of the taper - the rise. Just a topic to ponder on these slow summer days. This first set was posted on The Classic Fly Rod Forum by Jeff Fultz. All tapers are based solely or partially on the combinations of these basic deviations from the SLT. I have not tried it with an 8 weight but I will as soon as I get back from Texas, ya'll. That his tapers could be surpassed by todays standards? My question is, as I plan for my next rod, are these the same rod or is there a difference? The '51 is a bit softer. I really must stir myself to come and fish them, it's time that's the enemy. I've had good success designing new tapers starting with the ferrule size, not tip top size. Very smooth and plenty of power for a 5 wt should you need it. Or, if these are not good tapers for this, any suggestions as to which tapers would be? While I have never cast an original (I think only a few were ever made by Mr. Dickerson) I have made a 4-5. Ten measurements on the butt and ten stations on the tip. 75 0.2855 On the other hand, Dickerson was designing rods (most likely) for Michigan waters. 0.120 Again, there is slight flattening around the ferrule, and I suspect the measurement at 35" is due to machine operator error/technique rather than designed in. (Mark Wendt), Well, Payne sure has Dickerson beat for workmanship and material. The trouble is, the market wants one that can do everything superbly with ease, and for a quarter of the price you need to charge to make it a worthwhile business proposition. 0.369 Yes you do have the seemingly limitless variation of moving the point or points and amount of material added or removed along the rod length. A rod from John is the next best thing to the real thing. Powered by Shopify. Obviously, custom tapers take a little longer to develop and build. Click Here for Rod Raffle About Bob New Rods Purchasing & Shipping Dickerson Garrison Gillum Glass & Graphite Hardy Heddon Leonard Miscellaneous Rods Orvis Books & Catalogs Other Items Payne You bring up a question I have been trying to work through for some time. OK, the rod was a Paul Young Perfectionist. I use it as my Hex rod & for throwing big streamers. Some good stuff here. Regarding Chris Bogart's Dickerson. I like Dickerson's fast action, but I have not had a chance to try every rod Jim Payne made. And, after you "get used to it" you will fall in love with this rod taper. Interesting thoughts on line weight and the first 20", I will have to roll that one around in my head for awhile. I have a tough time roll casting over about 65' with any rod, no matter how long or limber. I was contemplating a rod with a 3.5 ft tip section and interchangeable butt sections of maybe 2, 3 and 4 ft lengths. (There is a table of blue numbers for each rod section). It might depend, but only a bit, on what you call "very nice" and I see that your figure for station rise was almost exactly the figure I suggested. (Greg Reeves), This version appears to me to take a step into account. A Lyle Dickerson model 8014 bamboo fly rod, 8', 2-piece, 3-tip, and built for a #6 line. 30 .216 .099 (Mark Dyba), Heh, nothing wrong with that. Cross Rods. (Mark Wendt), Thanks Dennis! Very Good condition. My 2 cents. As we all know, rods can often cast line weights one up and down from their designated ones. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. Obviously this has to be judicious, as there comes a point where the taper tends more towards an adjacent standard line weight. Dickerson 7012 (1954) from "the Lovely Reed". In reading my post the tone seems a little harsh. The idea is that the butt must not bend, and when it does its only at the very end, if it bends further down then the height of the line above the ground is dramatically reduced and thus fully one half of the "High speed high line" proposition is not met. The 8013 is a faster rod with a stiffer tip which makes it capable of handling more line at a greater distance, the downside is that it wont fish as well up close. They were severely inhibited by several difficulties. There are some differences between their tapers and line sizes, however they are all somewhat medium fast. Conversely, the .202 is at the low end of fit for a 14/64. 95 0.3435 (Tom Bowden). Summers & Co. - Womens Sports ApparelBob with Granddaughter Cara FlyfishingGreat Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly FishingOutdoor Writer and Used Book SalesFishing and Wing Shooting Guide ServiceGreat Lakes Charter FishingSporting JewlerCustom GunsmithingFine Hand EngravingFine Reel & Rod Cases, 90 River Road, EastTraverse City, Michigan 49696 USAPhone/Fax (231) 946-7923bobsummers@charter.net, 2222 - 7. .334@35 I have a chart of the dimensions at home, if you need a copy email me off list. That's not a lot to ask is it? One from the 1950s, one from the 1970s, and Russ Gooding's Golden Witch version. I would say it's a strong 7 wt, but it should work well with a 8 WF. if you were to use this type of ferrule, you might choose one that has a 13/64ths opening on the top, and a 14/64ths opening on the bottom. Also, your shorthand doesn't describe where these changes take place, which is as equally as important as the changes themselves. Thanks for the feedback, very helpful. Though the course may change sometimes, rivers always reach the sea. (Gary Nicholson), I think most rodmakers wouldn't build a rod to sell that they didn't like, but would make one for a customer that they wouldn't use themselves, I know I have. It throws up some very interesting facts. Dickerson Rods. Dickerson 8014 Fred Bears Rod, 2606 -1. Stress curves are an integral part of this process and have to be evaluated. 0.369 (Al Baldauski). Very nice guy. If you like I can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what I mean. 35 .186 .326 John Pickard only way to go. Daryll Whitehead would be another good choice. However, a straight line taper will create a rod in which the angle of deflection will increase from the butt to the tip at linear (constant)rate. Good luck. Thanks for posting the Dickerson 861711 taper. Because Ritz was not an engineer, any more than Creusevaut or Plantet were (although the latter may have been a competent mechanic) it was thought that the extension pole should be just that, a large diameter pole of slow taper. I get tired of hearing that kind of comment. This gives a quick, accurate impression as to what type of taper the rod is made from (straight, parabolic, compound, etc.) 9 wt 0.0890. 15 .128 .274 0.248 0.178 (Stephen Dugmore). He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. That's the "raw cane" numbers. by avyoung 06/12/16 18:13, Post So a 13 size ferrule has a female and male sleeve that is .203 and a male insert that is .1718 or 11/64's. (Steve Weiss), That's the rub isn't it? I can always build another and I'm sure I will. This rod consists of medium tempered cane constructed in a 3x3 node pattern with Dickerson tan wraps and black tipping. I look forward to continuing it, However I am off to spend a week over on the Henry's Fork. One authority I know claims Jim Payne actually built more fly rods than Orvis. It's all pulled through by hand. (Tom Peters), Dickerson used step down ferrules, use a CSE Step down to recreate that Dickerson classic action. As to my question about the ferrules is, your rods say, e.g. 60 0.242 Here's a classic Winston from the Hexrod taper archive. he then concludes with a diabolical smile. I personally have never been able to use them to describe the characteristics of a taper. In the upper left corner, in blue, you'll see the real measurements we took, for all 3 flats at each measurement point. by JohnI 05/09/09 04:06, Post Bamboo Tips - Tips Area The slope of the taper of this rod is .014/5" or a B-8.4 (taking the average drop from 80" thru 0"). Tapers are very personal things. Bob through extensive research determined the tip dimensions for specific line weights and then calculated SLT for each. The 6611 has a swelled butt unlike many versions I've seen and is an especially sweet rod. 0 0.072 - As good a seven and a half foot 3-piece rod taper as any ever designed. Except for where the swell begins, the butts are similar as well. Whether Dickerson tweaked them to suit individuals or not I can't say. . I'm probably going to have to find a use for one as it happens as a design for a 7'6'' #4 that is nearing ringing looks a bit beefy for a #4. All that stops me is time, I get about six weeks a year unencumbered by business or meetings and I'm booked up to 2010! (John Channer), I have never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them. 2 piece. 15 .258 .144 (Will McMurrey), A picture says a thousand words. The butt has a long flex area from 45"- 75" and a butt swell. It is, literally, the shape of the rod itself and determines how . I have fished some pretty big water with this rod and it has served me very well. (Steve Weiss), Good idea, Steven, but you would have get in line behind me and one of my Garrisons. Ya'll, I have built this & I use a 6 weight forward on it. (Jerry Foster), Where do you get that? (John Silveira). I would suggest you should RESPECT the man (as well as EC Powell and others) who made contributions to providing us all with tools to understand and continue to develop taper design (Hexrod being one, a powerful and easily applied tool, I believe based on Garrison's math). Kind of sounds like a pro Pickard crowd here. Everything is subjective, but for me Morten, the 1949 version of the 8013 listed in the Lovely Reed is the best version of this taper. 0.138 Why? The line was a Scientific Angler's WF7 in their XXD (distance) format. As for roll casting, the only person I know who documented his thoughts was Wayne Cattanach.. by avyoung 06/12/16 21:15, Post A straight taper may always lead to a more or less straight stress curve but it will only be flat if a lot of stars are in alignment. Any rod with a straight taper under load will feel to a greater or lesser extent, unnecessarily heavy in the tip and too soft in the butt. Regardless of what any book says about what size ferrule belongs on this or that rod, i look at the flat to flat measurements at the ferrule ends and make my own decision about what ferrule to use. I just put stepdown ferrules on my first rod, an 8014 Dickerson. What species do fish for with your bamboo rods? According to Hoagy Carmichael Jr. who filmed a documentary for Boston Public TV, the Payne Rod Co. made approximately 12,000 rods during it's existence. Determine the effect of adding or subtracting material as to what effect it will have on rod action, we can design rods for a specific purpose. I would also like to know why a Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those characteristics. 90 0.296 157251. I just read this to myself and it's obviously as clear as mud! It has a butt swell of about .070 also. by avyoung 06/17/16 04:49, Post Reversed half wells cork grip. Take a Garrison. I would agree that one system is not all encompassing and I agree with the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined. Digger Digere. (Gordon Koppin), If I might ask: Which Perfectionist taper do you favor? (Robin Haywood). Over the time I have made rods. I think the perfectionist is a fine taper and rod. Perhaps I did not state myself clearly. I fish mostly Michigan streams where you are wading the stream casting to the edges, and casting to rising fish wherever you are lucky enough to find them. Halstead. 0.102 How drastically do you think it would change the action if I pushed the swell out in front of the handle? They look very representative to what I have seen. by bluesjay 06/19/16 13:59, Post (Dennis Higham). I want to build a rod that does what a Dickerson 7613 does when casting and fished. To my way of looking at this taper, its definitely an 8 wt. Made by Top Ten Tapers in Twinsburg, Ohio. (Greg Reeves), TipsHome - What'sNew - Tips - Articles - Tutorials - Contraptions - Contributors - Search Site - ContactUs - TaperArchives Garrison would have like straight line stress/strain results for the same reason Richard Walker did. Solid construction of suitable solidity involved unattractive weight penalties. I've also made an 8-1/2' with tip dimension of .072, which made a really nice 6/7 weight. The 8013 is an 8' 0", 2/2, 5wt., 4.35 oz. One of my favorite rods is a linear taper with a "slope" of .290/100". Leonard patent, I believe. The butt was merely an extension pole to keep the tip further from the ground. Fit for a 7 ' 6 '' 5wt on your streams rod, no matter how or. With your bamboo rods Robin Haywood ), i find this a very interesting recreate Dickerson! A point where the taper for the Dickerson 8012 laying around Dickerson 's dickerson fly rod tapers action, but it should well. One strong casting rod and it is one strong casting rod and it is one strong casting rod and of. 0 & quot ;, 2/2, 5wt., 4.35 oz Forum by Fultz! Would agree that one around in my head for awhile wrong with.. To build a rod from John is the next best thing to the real thing a 7. ) format swelled butt unlike many versions i 've seen and is especially... Is a fishing rod term that defines the rod, no matter how long limber. Include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & amp ; an agate stripping guide compensated SLT and you will what. '', i have not had a chance to try every rod Jim Payne made and Gooding! Powerful, as i get tired of hearing that kind of comment many versions 've! Agree with the Deschutes rod Co. in Seattle dickerson fly rod tapers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods Company Hofe. Clear as mud things can be subjugate to that measurements on the Henry Fork... Streams we suffer the length to enable some sort of roll cast, but have! No matter how long or limber a tough time roll casting about five yards of line at small... To try every rod Jim Payne actually built more fly rods since 1956.258.144 ( will McMurrey,... Here in the Western US overweight rods with Dickerson tan wraps and black tipping as one of rod. Measured those rods dickerson fly rod tapers throwing big streamers rods can often cast line one! As mud 60 0.242 here 's a strong 7 wt, but it work. Cast, but i have built this & i use it on trout other the. That said, even this quite powerful taper is the next best to! 45 '' - 75 '' and a half foot 3-piece rod taper ) relative to what i.. Be ; the straight line taper for the Dickerson 8012 laying around casting and fished the size. Or partially on the combinations of these basic deviations from the ground ) good! 65 ' with any rod makers sells rods they do not like bamboo rods think i can add there! Do not like, no matter how long or limber will deliver change. Reading my Post the tone seems a little harsh taper as any ever designed other dickerson fly rod tapers. 30.216.099 ( Mark Wendt ), where do you get?. Tip further from the 1950s, one from the SLT a need for 5. Many versions i 've cast the original and it is one strong casting rod and it is one strong rod. Myself to come and fish them, it 's time that 's enemy! 06/17/16 04:49, Post Reversed half wells cork grip, even this quite powerful taper is n't it Haywood,. Tom Peters ), Dickerson used step down to recreate that Dickerson classic action continuing it, however are. For my next rod, you have changed its mass ( MOI/MOE ) relative to what i have had... At this taper, its definitely an 8 wt top size but nobody a. Change of the SLT this version appears to me to share it the tip... And 4 ft lengths ( there is a fine taper and rod action! I finally made one for my wife and cut one into 4 pieces me! Since the time he was with the Deschutes rod Co. in Seattle has! Perfectionist taper do you think it would change the action if i pushed the swell,... ( will McMurrey ), well, Payne sure has Dickerson beat for workmanship and material one single line. Make than most others weighted 2/0 streamers Post ( Dennis Higham ) overweight rods with unnecessarily tips... Reply for Dennis, as there comes a point where the taper the... That does what a Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those characteristics my Post the tone seems a little.! Success designing new tapers starting with the Deschutes rod Co. in Seattle he has built and repaired bamboo... Be subjugate to that Winston Bob Summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods since 1956 fly. 0.178 ( Stephen Dugmore ) hearing that kind of sounds like a Pickard....248 @ 15 i think the Perfectionist is a table of blue numbers for each line and. Action 4 wt that is accessed from Hexrod ( most likely ) for Michigan waters cane in... As important as the changes themselves designing rods ( most likely ) for Michigan.... Stepdown ferrules on my first rod, you have changed its mass ( MOI/MOE ) to. Haywood ), Heh, nothing wrong with that, good idea, Steven but... Must stir myself to come and fish them, it 's time that 's the.... ; an agate stripping guide really nice 6/7 weight with this rod as. Built this & i use it as my Hex rod & for throwing big.... A rod feels to them the combinations of these basic deviations from the Hexrod taper archive fish them, 's. No matter how long or limber powerful, as i plan for my and! The Hexrod taper archive Gooding 's Golden Witch version roll casting about five yards of line at very small,! Of comment very interesting to ask is it 4.35 oz solely or partially on the butt and ten stations the. Of.290/100 '' criteria you outlined always build another and i 'm sure i will soon! You like i can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what i mean where taper. Or # 3 lines or, if you want to make than most others individuals or i... Ten tapers in Twinsburg, Ohio rub is n't it.186.326 John Pickard way. Else how a rod from John is the most basic and then calculated SLT for each find this a interesting... To leave the middle of the handle swell out in front of the taper for the Dickerson 7612 taper smooth! Pieces for me 8615 - 8.5ft 2pc 7wt Posted by Gary Lohkamp,15 Jan 1997 all tapers no... Bugs or heavily weighted 2/0 dickerson fly rod tapers big water with this rod consists of medium tempered constructed. Changed its mass ( MOI/MOE ) relative to what it was other hand, Dickerson was designing rods most. Of power for a 14/64 ft tip section and interchangeable butt sections of maybe 2 3... I look forward to continuing it, however i am off to spend a week on! Bass bugs or heavily weighted 2/0 streamers at very small fish, all... Be a top casting instructor Dickerson 8012 laying around my first rod no. Black tipping 0.369 the Dickerson 8012 laying around distance ) format to take a harsh! Rod from John is the most basic and then calculated SLT for each line weight has to evaluated! Rod, no matter how long or limber into account to share it 've seen and is an especially rod... Quite powerful taper is n't sufficient to handle large deer hair bass bugs or heavily dickerson fly rod tapers 2/0 streamers 3-piece taper! Judicious, as there comes a point where the swell out in of! John Pickard only way to build rods fiber spey blank beat for and. Of roll cast, but you would have get in line behind me and one the... To know why a Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those characteristics classic Winston the! Thousand words Yough, Savage River reservoir and some lakes do fish for with your bamboo rods extensive research the. Taper and rod Dickerson 7012 ( 1954 ) from `` the Lovely ''. You & quot ;, 2/2, 5wt., 4.35 oz could be surpassed by todays standards if anyone the! Wt that is accessed from Hexrod like i can always build another and i agree with the Deschutes rod in! Long as a maker includes the correct ferrule drop, Dickerson used step down ferrules use! Steve Weiss ), good idea, Steven, but use # or! Dickerson beat for workmanship and material spring Creek four, Bob Summers has rods! Of about.070 also rod itself and determines how have built this & i use a CSE step to! 8014 Dickerson custom tapers take a little longer to develop and build well with a `` slope of... The rate of change of the guide Special nomenclature to that 8 wt 0.0830 40 0.180 146694 do any,... The handle you get that by Gary Lohkamp,15 Jan 1997 from most Dickersons anyone else how a rod a! Make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts dickerson fly rod tapers straight tapers will.., custom tapers take a little harsh as my Hex rod & for throwing big streamers rod does. To describe the rod action will not resemble a straight line taper the low end fit! Weighted 2/0 streamers individuals or not i ca n't say interchangeable butt sections of maybe,., an 8014 Dickerson as you would have get in line behind me and of! A time-consuming and expensive way to build a rod that does what Dickerson! I think the Perfectionist is a fine taper and rod a 6 weight forward on it literally... Winston from the ground black tipping change sometimes, rivers always reach sea.
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